Henry Ford's activities

[k***@gmail.com]

I see this is an old thread, but VERY interesting to me. I am doing research on the history of jazz violin or fiddle, and have been fascinated as a fiddle player, that there are so few jazz violinists, especially since the early beginnings of jazz there were MANY violinists playing jazz. But by the 30's and certainly the forties and fifties the violin was seen as not belonging in jazz. I wonder if Henry Ford's support for fiddle contests and square dance weren't seen as a antidote for his apparent dislike of jazz. Whether Ford himself felt that way, was his pushing the art of country fiddle seen as supporting white music as opposed to Black?
I hear some anecdotal evidence here that he was racist is at least some of his attitudes. Did that include racist attitudes to Jazz as Black music as well? If any of the original respondents are out there, I'd love to hear your comments on this...

There won't be much oldtime content in this; Gordon Banks has led us to a
contemplation of moral relativism. So if ideas beyond tunes, tunings and
players turns you off, please don't bother reading this. Gordon holds
that to be anything other than a moral relativist is to be "smugly
self-rightous in hind-sight." So one can't condemn the outrages of the
past because most folks either approved or sat on their tootie and let it
happen. Therefore, we have to assume that if we'd been there we'd have
been just as venal, complaisant or cowardly. But Gordon, among the
readers of this newsgroup is Rob, who spent several months in a
Mississippi jail in 1963 because he believed everybody should be allowed
to vote. I don't care to celebrate the chickenhearted and your philosophy
seems devoid of values. Would you have us assume that if we'd been in a
place where infantcide was practiced, we'd at least have tortured a
teenager? I also got into a little trouble in the civil rights years for
work I still think was okay. If that sounds smugly self-rightous, so be
it. Gordon, how does a moral relativist make his contribution? Joe
Wilson

Joe, you make several mistakes in your rant. First, don't assume that
when I throw out something to make people think about the smug self-
righteousness of their position (which you amply demonstrate here), that
from that little snippet you can put me in your little cubby-hole. I
am not a moral relativist. I am a skeptic. I am skeptical of the notion
that we are superior to our ancestors. Rather than condemning them, you
should be grateful that certain superstitions have been overcome, if only
temporarily. If Rob is the kind of man who acts on his moral beliefs,
bravo for him. There have been such characters throughout history, however.
It isn't a modern phenomenon.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks N3JXP |"Caminante, no hay camino.
http://www.pitt.edu/~gebanks | Se hace camino, al andar." -Antonio Machado
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Paul Gifford]

Post by k***@gmail.com
I see this is an old thread, but VERY interesting to me. I am doing research on the history of jazz violin or fiddle, and have been fascinated as a fiddle player, that there are so few jazz violinists, especially since the early beginnings of jazz there were MANY violinists playing jazz. But by the 30's and certainly the forties and fifties the violin was seen as not belonging in jazz. I wonder if Henry Ford's support for fiddle contests and square dance weren't seen as a antidote for his apparent dislike of jazz. Whether Ford himself felt that way, was his pushing the art of country fiddle seen as supporting white music as opposed to Black?
I hear some anecdotal evidence here that he was racist is at least some of his attitudes. Did that include racist attitudes to Jazz as Black music as well? If any of the original respondents are out there, I'd love to hear your comments on this...

There won't be much oldtime content in this; Gordon Banks has led us to a
contemplation of moral relativism. So if ideas beyond tunes, tunings and
players turns you off, please don't bother reading this. Gordon holds
that to be anything other than a moral relativist is to be "smugly
self-rightous in hind-sight." So one can't condemn the outrages of the
past because most folks either approved or sat on their tootie and let it
happen. Therefore, we have to assume that if we'd been there we'd have
been just as venal, complaisant or cowardly. But Gordon, among the
readers of this newsgroup is Rob, who spent several months in a
Mississippi jail in 1963 because he believed everybody should be allowed
to vote. I don't care to celebrate the chickenhearted and your philosophy
seems devoid of values. Would you have us assume that if we'd been in a
place where infantcide was practiced, we'd at least have tortured a
teenager? I also got into a little trouble in the civil rights years for
work I still think was okay. If that sounds smugly self-rightous, so be
it. Gordon, how does a moral relativist make his contribution? Joe
Wilson

Joe, you make several mistakes in your rant. First, don't assume that
when I throw out something to make people think about the smug self-
righteousness of their position (which you amply demonstrate here), that
from that little snippet you can put me in your little cubby-hole. I
am not a moral relativist. I am a skeptic. I am skeptical of the notion
that we are superior to our ancestors. Rather than condemning them, you
should be grateful that certain superstitions have been overcome, if only
temporarily. If Rob is the kind of man who acts on his moral beliefs,
bravo for him. There have been such characters throughout history, however.
It isn't a modern phenomenon.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks N3JXP |"Caminante, no hay camino.
http://www.pitt.edu/~gebanks | Se hace camino, al andar." -Antonio Machado
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I happened to read this thread, some 20 years after it happened, and read your comments. I don't think Henry Ford had anything to do with jazz violin. Depending on how you define jazz, I'm sure that a lot of 1920s dance orchestras included leaders who played the violin, simply because dance orchestras had always been led by violinists/fiddlers. Depending on what part of the country they lived in, these orchestras, if they were professional, commercial outfits, would have learned the latest styles. So, when fox trots came in during the teens, they added a tenor banjo, replaced the clarinet with a sax, and played them, in addition to waltzes, schottisches, quadrilles, two-steps, etc. Perhaps because the new dances allowed more dancers per square foot, the music needed to be louder. So the saxophone and trumpet became dominant, and violins disappeared. A few odd violinists might play jazz improvisation and swing with small groups, and a small number of Hungarian Gypsy violinists might play some jazz in a few places, but basically it was small numbers.